Ghost: A Conversation With The Man Behind the Music, the Mystery and the Mask
Photo: Photo by Mikael Eriksson
“Despite all the death and darkness, it’s actually meant as a positive infusion, where it’s meant to be entertaining. And meant to make you happy and somewhat content with life rather than the opposite.”
Since their incarnation in 2006, Ghost has become and remains one of the most prolific acts in metal. Through their records, thematic live shows (referred to by both the band and fans as “rituals”), and characters like Papa Emeritus and Cardinal Copia, the mystery that they initially were shrouded in still remains. In 2017, it was revealed after much speculation and curiosity from fans that Tobias Forge was indeed the frontman. However, it was not a veil that was lifted or a case that was closed. Ghost is the hottest cold case around - they will never be a mystery that is solved, rather, a mystery that unfolds. We spoke with lead vocalist Tobias Forge - the mastermind behind the music, the mystery, and the mask - about their rituals, how he forged a path for Ghost, as well as the light that can be found in the darkness.
I just wanted to start off and say thank you so much for taking some time to do this interview with me. I'm a really big fan of you guys. I saw you last time you were in Calgary back in 2016 on the Popestar Tour. I've never been to a show like that or one, to be perfectly honest, I didn't really know who you guys were, but I walked away as a fan. So much so that I went out and like literally bought all of Ghost's discography on vinyl pretty much the next week. So thank you for coming back to Calgary as well. How's the tour been going so far?
Really well, really well. This tour has had a special purpose in the sense that over the years I've always been very annoyed by the fact that depending on the venues, that has meant that some cities got a big show and some cities did not get one. That is just a logical way that, you know, it just ends up that way because of fans. It takes time to grow into a band that can sort of deliver the same production to everyone. So the main purpose of this tour that we're on right now has been everyone, wherever you are, gets the same show regardless of your so-called market, whatever. If you're a big city, metropolitan hub, or if you are a smaller city in the middle of nowhere.
So with that in mind, this tour has been phenomenal because so far with the odd exception of maybe a trim height, which sort of dictates how much of the backdrop you see. Everything else has been very fluent and very equal, which is great. I remember just looking back at the Popestar tour and at the beginning of the Pale Tour Named Death when we were playing theaters. Theaters have a tendency to be very comfy - they're very nice and very old and historical, many of them at least. But you can't do pyro, you can't do bombs, you cannot do confetti. Oh, the curtain doesn't work, we also have fucking Lion King going this weekend, so you have to be mindful of all their sets and it's like "uuuugh!". So you have 2000 people coming that expect them to see the same thing as the bigger city down the road got yesterday. Because we're a production-oriented band, that's very, very, very irritating.
I know you guys just released two new songs and they're very 1960s, including the music video for "Kiss The Go-Goat”. How did those songs kind of come to be, or I guess decide to resurface now because I did read you say they were released 50 years ago… technically.
Yeah, so, therefore, I can't answer that. I don't know - I'm 38. [laughs]
Fair enough. As you said, you're a very visual band. How much control do you have over the visuals - from the production to the music videos, to the webisodes?
I have a hundred percent control, but you know, you're always at the hands of whoever is sort of executing, so there's always some involuntary wiggle room that I have to have in order to accept whatever we end up with. Sometimes it gets really, really good and sometimes, it's not really according to what I specified. But you know, it's an organic thing. I mean, most things are on my initiative, which is nice, but you know, there's always a sort of a little interim. I mean, obviously I don't sit down and draw every t-shirt design that we have, of course not. I'm not a tailor so I cannot sew clothes, but they're done according to spec, demands, and wishes.
You have these personas - this tour, it's Cardinal Copia. When you're writing, is it kind of like you sit down and you write as yourself Tobias and the persona is just more for the live show and it's like a vessel to deliver the songs, or is there any of the persona that kind of shines through in the songwriting process?
No, it does not. Many songs are written with a live show in mind of course as most bands do. As soon as you are a touring band and especially if you start playing bigger places, you will start adapting your writing to the forum that you're playing. Because if you're playing grindcore and for some reason, you start playing really, really, really big places, you will start to slow down because it just sounds like an absolute train wreck if you're writing that for a bigger room than a basement. So you will start changing because it's not pleasant. That's why most bands, especially heavy metal bands that sort of started in one way - super sped up and sort of intricate - I'm talking about Maiden, Metallica, bands like that, that sort of started more proggy and more thrashing in a way, end up playing slower because they play big places.
And that's why you tend to write what you know will feel good for the crowd and yourself. It's kind of like having an intimate relationship with someone. You start adapting to whatever the other person and you like, right, and therefore you find the vibe. So I do that [in] writing songs now where I'm trying to write songs that we don't have. In the back of my mind, I know that "well, fuck, we should really have a song like this - we should have more of this, we should have more like that. This song does not work, so I definitely don't want to play that. I definitely don't want to have another one of those because we don't need it." So, therefore, you write songs to work on a live stage. Essentially, the premise is that the songs are interpreted by the band and also our character that are our main focal points of each tour or each tour cycle Papa Emertius I, II, III, Cardinal and beyond, they're just there executing. It's never been the point. I mean, Cardinal Copia hasn't written a tune in his life and couldn't to save his life.
I know initially, you didn't have this idea in mind for Ghost - you didn't really want to be the singer. Your voice is very rock, very metal, and I think a great kind of amalgamation - not bound to one genre. I can't really imagine those songs being any other way, and I think in a lot of ways your voice what makes Ghost sonically stand out. Not to be too deep on this question, but how did you find your voice?
I'm still trying to find it. I mean, over years of playing, I believe. I mean, I sang before Ghost as well, so I wasn't strange to the idea of singing and I don't dislike singing, not at all. I just didn't want to be the singer, I just wanted to be the guitar player who sings back up. That's how I would view myself if I were to put myself on a vacancy, sort of putting myself out there on the market - I would never apply for singing jobs. That's not my forte. My claim to fame and what I'm known for and what I'm good at now is being the singer of Ghost. But I couldn't sing in another band - I can play guitar and sing backups in many bands - that's what I would excel at. That's in my opinion, that's how I view myself. But, that's what I do. You always get better with practice, so now almost 700 shows into this, of course, you get to be a better singer than a guitar player because I haven't spent 700 nights playing guitar now. It just ended up like this. It is not what I intended it for to be so for me, I'm just sort of playing along.
I don't want to really dwell on the whole unmasking or identity reveal that you're the man behind the mask. Despite that, I think there's still this intense mystery to the band. How is that maintained?
There is a way to control your public, persona and that is, if you want to be seen, you try to do so. Raise your hand as many times as you can and then you have to have an Instagram account, you can appear on as many things as possible. That way you constantly sort of feed your crowd with fodder. I have chosen not to do that. Whenever Blabbermouth or any page like that picks up on something that I've said, that is exactly what they did. They picked up on something that I said, I didn't call them and say that: "Oh, hey, I have something to say.” I'm doing interviews because I'm being asked to do interviews.
I think that the trick is just not to let people in that much. We do not Instagram shit from behind the stage. We don't talk about where we are all the time. We don't comment on what we eat every day. If you're not into that nowadays, you are sort of naturally looked upon as kind of unavailable because that is what is expected from anyone who's a public figure nowadays. As much as I have wanted to be a famous rock star just as anyone else might - believe me, I've wanted to be a rock star all my life. I'm not saying in any way that I don't want to be famous or recognized. However, since having spent a few years now in a band that was semi unknown individually, I grew to appreciate the ability to walk in and out of stardom. Which is something that I like to maintain because it is actually kind of practical, and that is a luxury that many rock stars do not have. Artists, comedians, actors because they are expected to be what they are professionally. You know, Sid Vicious - he was expected to be Sid Vicious everywhere, right? Same thing with comedians. They are expected to come in and like, "Hey, be funny, say something funny, like we're at dinner, that's the role.” Whereas I have the ability to sort of step out of my character and no one, as far as I know, expects me to be anywhere anything like my character in real life, which is very comfortable. I think that that's just because there's such a divide between what you see on stage and what you would meet privately because that is a good way to sort of keep a distance and that therefore, in the long run, I think that there is a slight mystery.
I know you guys have a super awesome fanbase. What is the ultimate message you hope your fans take away from Ghost?
Well, the message... I'd say that considering that we have a lot of our fans coming from - a lot of them are suicidal and depressed and I'm very happy with every time I hear that they say that in the past tense. I used to be suicidal, I used to be depressed or I battled depression, but I’ve now overcome that. Some attribute that to having listened to Ghost, some attribute that to having gone to our shows and found friends. But usually, there's also a series of things, you know, you found friends, you've maybe got a job or picked up going to school again, whatever. I really like for people to understand that despite - this is not necessarily our fans, but people in general, especially the ones that might be critical of the themes of the band thinking that it's a negative - it's actually a very positive and life-embracing message. Despite all the death and darkness, it's actually meant as a positive infusion, where it's meant to be entertaining. And meant to make you happy and somewhat content with life rather than the opposite.
I guess that's the message but, but what I really like for the fans to take away is like, be proud of yourself, be happy. Regardless of your sexual orientation or your gender or your skin colour. I want people to be happy, and do whatever extent I can help to entertain people and make them feel happier for at least a while, that's all I can do. If people find life invigorating and find fodder in what I do, I'm very, very happy and pleased with that.
Follow this link to see our photos of Ghost from Calgary’s ritual. Ghost’s latest EP, Seven Inches of Satanic Panic, is out now via Loma Vista Recordings. Click here to stream it, and keep your ears to the ground for new music from the band soon!
